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BONUS: Is Country Music a 'Mongrel' Genre?
As the music industry reflects on the recent CMA Awards, here's a conversation we had with John Collins from CountryLine Radio, just after our previous episode of the podcast, What Makes Country Music So American?
John argues that country music, much like the United States itself, is a "mongrel form" influenced by various cultures and musical traditions, and highlights how country music has evolved from gospel, rock, and R&B, reflecting the rich tapestry of influences from immigrant communities throughout American history.
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Special guest for this episode:
- John Collins, CountryLine Radio
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Highlights from this episode:
- Country music is a reflection of America's immigrant nature, blending diverse musical influences.
- The genre's appeal persists as it remains open to international influences and new styles.
- Artists like Beyoncé and Lana Del Rey show that country music is becoming popular among mainstream stars.
- Traditional country artists coexist with newer influences, creating a dynamic and evolving genre.
- Country music's roots are deeply intertwined with various genres, including blues and gospel.
- The genre is characterized by storytelling that resonates uniquely, setting it apart from others.
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Listen to John's full episode of the podcast:
What Makes Country Music So American?
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And if you like this episode, you might also love:
What Makes Country Music so American?
Are the Oscars Still Relevant?
Why Does Everyone Love Disney?
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Transcript
Hello and welcome to this little bonus episode.
Host:We recently published what Makes Country Music so American?
Host:And I'm joined now by John Collins from Country Line Radio, who is our guest who's stuck around to discuss this a little bit more.
Host:Hello again, John.
John Collins:Hello.
John Collins:Interesting question.
John Collins:What makes country music so American?
John Collins:And I've got a strong theory that I've held for many, many years.
John Collins:Country music, like America, is a bit of a mongrel form.
John Collins:America is a country made up of indigenous Americans.
John Collins:And then I know it's different now, but over the next 500 years, people from all sorts of countries and they brought with them their musical influences.
John Collins:If you listen to hillbilly music before it was called bluegrass, from the earliest recordings, 20s and 30s, it sounds awfully like Scottish and Irish folk music.
John Collins:Isn't that interesting because there was so many Scots and Irish over there.
Host:It's weird, isn't it, because we were talking on the podcast about like, I was kind of like prodding you to sort of try and explain why, you know, country music will sort of keep its appeal the more international it gets.
Host:But actually, you know, America is an immigrant nation.
Host:Country music by definition is international anyway, right?
John Collins:Yeah, exactly.
John Collins:And because people's favorite dogs are mongrels, generally purebred animals are typically higher strung and less fun to be around, country music just picks up influences.
John Collins:You get into the 60s and you get gospel music making its way in.
John Collins:You could make a very convincing argument that early rock and roll music is as influenced by country and that side of it as it is by anything else.
John Collins:And it's become this sort of melting pot where modern R B has been dropped into it.
John Collins:Girl band memes in there.
John Collins:You've got your Beyonce's, your Shabuzzi's, you've got Sam Hunt and his slightly rappy delivery.
John Collins:And I think as if it stays true to its being a rag bag, a very beautiful rag bag, but a rag bag of different influences.
John Collins:I think country music will always be great.
John Collins:And I don't think there's another country on planet Earth where you can pull together influences like that.
John Collins:So it reflects the country it's from.
John Collins:But in fact, those, those influences have come from everywhere else.
Guest:Yeah.
Host:And I think it's amazing the sort of scope of.
Host:Of the country genre now because, you know, you mentioned like these, these new artists that are coming through and kind of adding some inspiration from other genres sort of into.
Host:Into their music.
Host:But you've also got the really like traditional country artists still, like Zac Brown band, like Chris Stapleton, you know, they are, they are very kind of down the line country, really.
Host:And.
John Collins:Absolutely.
John Collins:Yeah, there's.
John Collins:And there's a lot of hat going on still.
John Collins:Yeah, that's not going away.
John Collins:Zach Bryan.
John Collins:Pretty deep Americana based and folky influences and influences in there as well there.
John Collins:It's that to me that makes it constantly refreshing.
John Collins:It makes me afraid when I get sent new music, I listen to everything because I'm afraid to miss out.
John Collins:And I promise you, when I worked in top 40 radio, you would sometimes go, no, I just don't like that.
John Collins:You know, you'd look at, you'd look at the artist and you would go, not for me, but this is a genre where new artists come around every couple of weeks.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Host:And we, we were sort of talking about how, you know, like, Beyonce is obviously the case study of the year in terms of, you know, having just released a country album seemingly out of nowhere.
Host:But, you know, it.
Host:It's not a huge surprise to see a big star, you know, dabbling in country music.
Host:It's been happening for a while now and it's like country is, is cool again.
John Collins:That's a great name for an album, isn't it?
Host:Yeah.
John Collins:Lana Del Rey is, you know, in the works that Marin Morris, I don't think were she to do it all again, would start out as a country artist.
John Collins:I think she would start out as a pop vocalist and then come over to country.
John Collins:I think it'd be other way.
John Collins:And it's the same.
John Collins:You write across.
John Collins:There's a kind of through line that says countries.
John Collins:I think you, you come into at some point because it's willing to accept outside influences in a way that many others aren't.
John Collins:Now, there are plenty of country fans.
John Collins:I mean, if you go on the Internet, you're going to see lots of them going, oh, that's not country.
John Collins:They're the kind of country gatekeepers who I really struggle with.
John Collins:Or there is the people that post on Facebook at 2 in the morning.
John Collins:I've just listened to the album that dropped just now.
John Collins:So I'm first.
John Collins:And it's country and it's just like, stop it and get on with enjoying the music.
Guest:Yeah.
John Collins:Because that's in our hearts.
John Collins:We're music fans.
John Collins:We're not here to show off.
Guest:Yeah.
Host:And there's, there's something about just a really good country song that just hits that nerve at the right time that I think is unlike any other genre.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
John Collins:Cody Johnson's the Painter.
John Collins:I can tell you where I was sitting the first time I Heard that, you know, and very prosaic.
John Collins:It was a seat on a bus, but it was a song of that quality.
John Collins:Doesn't come around very often.
Guest:Yeah, agree.
Guest:Yeah.
Host:And I actually would argue that some of Elton John's stuff is, you know, country at times.
Host:I mean, Honky Cat, you know, Elton.
John Collins:John's a shareholder in Country Line.
Host:Is he really?
John Collins:Yeah.
Host:I mean, if you could introduce us, that'd be lovely.
John Collins:But there's your explanation.
John Collins:We've got kind of similar.
John Collins:We like old soul music and we both like country music.
John Collins:We both, we all like other things as well.
John Collins:Nobody's that, you know, Blinkard, but he's.
John Collins:He's been involved in this company for quite some time.
Guest:Yeah.
Host:And he actually did.
Host:I mean, that, that kind of makes sense because he did that cover album Restoration, which was country covers of some of his hits.
Host:And actually Mara Morris, Mona Lisa, Mad has is a phenomenal cover.
John Collins:Yeah, absolutely.
John Collins:Lionel Richie's Tuskegee album, if you've never listened to that, go away and have a listen to it.
John Collins:You would think Lionel Richie, you know, smooth soul, blah, blah, blah.
John Collins:Covers of country songs.
John Collins:Yeah, absolutely.
John Collins:Outstanding.
John Collins:And that was.
John Collins:That's how country music, I think, can accept people in, if they're honest and they are, you know, approaching the music with a touch of respect.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Host:And I mean, you mentioned, you know, people sort of coming to country music now, but it used to be very much the other way.
Host:Didn't you feel like country used to be the gateway for four stars to kind of make a name for themselves and then move into, you know, more mainstream genres like Taylor Swift obviously being the, you know, post a goal for that.
Host:But, you know, I think Maramorous tried to do it.
Host:You know, she's moved a bit into pop at one point and I think come a little bit back into.
Host:More into country, you know, when she had a family and was more settled down.
Host:Yeah, and I think it used to be very much the other way, but now it's like stars that are established are finding that they can diversify and dabble in country music and it's.
Host:It's kind of legitimizing people that are just country stars.
Host:Right?
John Collins:Yeah, absolutely.
John Collins:I mean, Dolly, early poster girl for that.
John Collins:There's no way on God's green earth 9 to 5 is a country song, but we're happy to play it.
Host:You got the little, got the little kind of borderline kind of honky tonk piano going on in the borderline honky.
John Collins:Yeah, but, yeah, but that's Available in many other cultures as well.
John Collins:But you know, you know what I mean?
John Collins:I think because of countries, mongrel status, I think we're happy to let people in and give it a go.
John Collins:They need to be good.
John Collins:But that apart, good country music is good country music.
John Collins:That's it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Host:And who's your.
Host:Who's your favorite artist of all time.
John Collins:In country music?
John Collins:Who would I keep going back to?
John Collins:For a while it's been Tim McGraw because he has put together a very long career and he's evolved over the piece.
John Collins:And again, here is Morgan Mollen moment with his first Indian outlaw.
John Collins:And he's become this man of parts that just, you know, makes amazing music, produces amazing music, really away from country music.
John Collins:Stevie Wonder.
Host:Oh, nice.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Host:And actually, you know, we talk about like the sort of cross genre, but yeah, I think there's a lot of like.
Host:Actually, I'm gonna go on a tangent.
Host:It's my ADHD playing a part, but this sort of, sort of.
Host:It's not a particularly white genre.
Host:When you look at the roots of country music, you know, the blues, the kind of R B, the almost gospel inspiration at times in country.
Host:These are very black genres that were really made popular by African Americans and it's kind of been appropriated by white artists within country music.
Host:So there's, you know, there's a lot of black roots in country.
John Collins:Right.
John Collins:I think that's likely because of the southern half of America and it's particularly messed up attitude to people of color.
John Collins:And they, as I think I've said it, I've said elsewhere, that's not likely to actually change anytime soon.
John Collins:I think we're going through a phase where people are doing their best, but they've still got quite a distance to travel.
Guest:Yeah.
John Collins:Pardon me, but you're on the money again.
John Collins:I'm going to keep coming back to it.
John Collins:This is a genre of music that is made up of all these elements and brings it together.
John Collins:And it's in the performance, it's in the songwriting and the storytelling.
Guest:Yeah.
John Collins:In a way that a lot of other genres of pop music just don't do.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Host:And I'm sure anyone that listening to this is sort of on our side, so we're preaching to the converted.
Host:But I would hope that, you know, if we can pique the interest of someone who doesn't normally listen to country music to just go ahead and sort of just take a listen and dabble.
Host:I think, you know, I think that they'd be surprised in a good way.
Host:I think country music isn't just, you know, it's not.
Host:It's not the Kenny Rogers sitting there with the guitar singing the Gambler anymore, you know?
John Collins:No, we're not going to reverse a Ford F150 over your dog.
Guest:No.
Host:Right.
Host:John, thank you so much for taking the time out to discuss country music with me.
Host:We're going to wrap this up, and anyone listening, if you haven't already, just check out the full episode right now.
Host:And thank you so much for continuing to support the show.
Host:John, thank you so much.
John Collins:You're very welcome.
Host:And to everyone listening, thank you and goodbye.
