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BONUS: Talk Until You Drop - The Wild World of Filibusters
In this bonus episode following the main recording of What is a Filibuster? Liam and special guest Gregory Koger continue their discussion on the history of filibuster's, including its British origins and the role they played in the Civil Rights Act.
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Special guest for this episode:
- Gregory Koger, a professor of political science at the University of Miami, who specializes in legislative politics and political parties and author of the book Filibustering: A Political History of Obstruction in the House and Senate
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Highlights from this episode:
- Filibusters can be a complex political tool, not just a stubborn roadblock to legislation. They serve a purpose in forcing issues onto the agenda, showcasing their strategic use in U.S. politics.
- The history of filibustering dates back to the 19th century, with early examples even found in the UK Parliament, illustrating that this isn't just a U.S. phenomenon.
- Negotiating under pressure is crucial in politics, and filibusters often create that necessary urgency for lawmakers to reach agreements.
- Filibusters can sometimes prevent disastrous outcomes, such as a government default, highlighting their importance in legislative processes.
- The role of filibusters in campaign finance reform discussions in the 1990s demonstrates how they can bring critical issues to the forefront, ultimately leading to significant legislation.
- Understanding filibusters enriches our perspective on political maneuvering, revealing how they can be leveraged for both obstruction and progress in legislative debates.
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Additional Resources:
Filibustering: A Political History of Obstruction in the House and Senate by Greg Koger
U.S. Senate: About Filibusters and Cloture
10 Wildest Filibusters In History - Listverse
How The Filibuster Has Been Used To Block Civil Rights Progress | NBC News NOW
The filibuster has been a thorn in Democrats' side. Now it's their last hope - Fast Company
Filibuster Reform - Center for Effective Government
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And if you like this episode, you might also love:
What Was the Constitutional Convention?
Why Does the President Only Serve Two Terms?
Is the President Above the Law?
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Transcript
Hello and welcome to this bonus episode of A History recorded straight after our recently published episode, what is a Filibuster? I'm joined now by the guest from that episode, Gregory Koga, to discuss this a little bit more. Gregory, thank you for hanging on.
Gregory Koger:It's my pleasure. And I love being on the podcast.
Liam Heffernan:Yeah, thank you, Nat. It was really great to have you on.
We've talked a lot about politics on this podcast and we don't often get into the sort of nitty gritty as to, like, how it all actually works.
And certainly to myself, being in the uk, just not being in the us, the idea of a filibuster is just so alien to me, and particularly this concept that someone could just stand on the floor and just talk and talk and talk and talk until everyone's sick of them, basically, and until they can't stand up anymore. Is there a point that a filibuster can just go too far, Actually?
Gregory Koger:Talk about your intro first.
The filibustering should not be completely alien to you because one of the early examples of filibustering was by a member of Parliament named, I think, Parnell from Ireland.
And in the 19th century, he filibustered in the House of Commons on behalf of Irish interests and, you know, forced a review of US of UK policy towards Ireland at the time. And it wasn't through speeches as much as by making repeated parliamentary motions, if I recall.
So again, there's lots of different ways to filibuster, and one way is by forcing votes on lots and lots of different procedural questions. Now, can it go too far? So certainly, yes. I mean, there are a lot of situations, at least in US politics, where legislation actually has to pass.
One great example is, as you probably have heard, the debt that the US government can take on is limited by law. And periodically that limit has to be increased because we keep on overspending.
And if we don't raise the debt limit to accommodate the fact that we keep overspending, well, then we'd actually be in default, and that'd be calamitous. And those debt limit increases are subject to filibusters. So if. And they have been filibustered in the past. So.
But if someone, someone or some group of senators were filibustering and not relenting and just not giving up and not negotiating, they might actually push the country to the brink of debt default to the point where the. The majority party then says, I don't. I want to respect your rights and I don't want to Override you. But given a choice between the.
The fiscal and financial future of our country and your parliamentary rights, we have to choose the economic interests of our country over your parliamentary prerogatives.
Liam Heffernan:It's interesting because all the drama that happens around the debt ceiling in your country actually makes front page news over here, which is maybe a testament to how significant it is. But you mentioned in the main episode that there are key budgetary things that are. That are kind of exempt from filibustering. Why?
Why are things like that not exempt?
Gregory Koger:The debt limit one is because reason has traditionally prevailed in the past.
Even when there are crises or these, you know, these, These prolonged negotiations, they usually come up with something before we actually go into default. And senators, I think there's a piece of them that likes.
Well, they maybe like the drama, but especially they like a situation which everybody actually has to sit down and negotiate because, you know, in a lot of policy areas, the problem is that there is no deadline, no pressure. You know, so I sit down and, you know, if we were negotiating and I sit down, well, here's my position. And you say, well, here's my position.
Why would I concede to you? Why would you concede to me? Why would we bargain in good faith?
Because I might just wait for a day when you're not around and then I can get exactly what I want. So I think legislators, on some level, think there's benefit to having these crises that forces them to negotiate and to.
To bargain in more or less good faith, because otherwise they'll just sit around and wait for the other side to lose.
Liam Heffernan:Yeah.
It's interesting because when I went into this recording, I was firmly of the belief that, you know, filibusters are just this really, you know, obstructive tool that politicians use to be so stubborn and make sure that something doesn't get passed.
But it does feel, from everything we've discussed, that there is something a lot more political and certainly a bit more nuanced about filibustering than. Than just that. Right?
Gregory Koger:Yeah. Yeah.
You know, the thing I left out of the main episode, and I regret it now, is that filibustering can also be a way to force issues onto the agenda.
And so what senators are able to do is to, you know, take a piece of legislation that the other party wants and say, that's nice for you, but I'm going to hold it hostage until you pay attention to this other thing that I really care about.
example in my mind is in the: ng campaign finance reform in:And that was, you know, the bipartisan Campaign Finance Reform Act.
But we wouldn't have gotten there if there hadn't have been these series of like, hostage taking episodes, episodes in which the, the minority parties were forced an issue onto the Senate floor that otherwise the majority party would prefer to ignore.
And you know, going back in history, there are other incidences of this, of this what I call hostage taking strategy that forces things onto the floor.
Liam Heffernan:It's eye opening really, because, yeah, it's, it just shows how it can be. It can be used as a force for good rather than just, just as a way to stubbornly block something from the other side.
Yeah, that's an insightful conversation and I think good extension from the main episode as well. And if anyone hasn't listened to that yet, do go and check that out on the feed. It's just a couple below this.
Gregory, thank you for your insight on all things filibusters. It was really great to have you on the podcast. Do remind people where they can get in touch with you directly.
Gregory Koger:Certainly. I'm on Blue Sky. I searched for Gregory Koger. There aren't that many of us. I'll be the one from the University of Montana, Miami.
Liam Heffernan:Awesome. Thank you. And to those of you listening, if you like what you hear, we'll put links in the show notes to everything we've mentioned.
And you can also support the show from as little as $1. And all the information will be in the show notes. Thank you all so much for listening and goodbye.
