Episode 99
IN THE MAKING: Comparing the Epstein Files to Nixon's Watergate Tapes
Liam here, and in this impromptu edition of America: A History in the Making, I look into the parallels between the Nixon administration's Watergate scandal and the ongoing controversy surrounding the Epstein files, discussing how both situations highlight the complexities of political accountability and public transparency.
Recently, there has been significant pressure on former President Trump to release the Epstein files, particularly as claims emerge regarding his connections to Epstein. We explore the implications of Trump's reluctance to disclose this information and how it could reflect on his standing within his own party.
Additionally, I look at the historical context of Nixon's tapes and the Supreme Court's role in demanding transparency, contrasting it with today's political landscape and the differing judicial responses, raising important questions about accountability and the evolving nature of political scandals in America.
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Highlights from this episode:
- This episode discusses the parallels between Nixon's Watergate scandal and the current situation surrounding the Epstein files.
- Previewing the next episode of America: A History where I speak with UCL's Iwan Morgan about Nixon's resignation.
- The Supreme Court's involvement in both Nixon's case and the Epstein files raises questions about political transparency.
- Trump's reluctance to release the Epstein files suggests potential issues within his own party and public image.
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Additional Resources:
Senate Democrats Try to Force Release of Epstein Files With Little-Known Law - The New York Times
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And if you like this episode, you might also love:
What Was the Constitutional Convention?
Why Does the President Only Serve Two Terms?
Is the President Above the Law?
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Transcript
With reaction and insights to the biggest stories and breaking news from the USA and a little bit of history thrown in.
Speaker A:This is America, A history in the making.
Speaker A:Hello and welcome to another episode of A History in the Making.
Speaker A:Again, it's a solo one with me, me, Liam.
Speaker A:And the reason I wanted to jump on the mic this week for another unprompt you in the making is because I'm going to jump on the bandwagon here.
Speaker A:I'm going to talk about the Epstein files.
Speaker A:But there's a reason for that.
Speaker A:You see, earlier today I had the pleasure of speaking with Professor Ewan Morgan, who's been on the podcast before.
Speaker A:He joins me to chat about Richard Nixon and the Watergate scandal.
Speaker A:That episode is going out next week on the podcast to coincide with the 50th anniversary of Nixon's resignation.
Speaker A:And it was a really fascinating chat.
Speaker A:But part of that conversation, Ewan, was telling me about the tapes that Nixon had.
Speaker A:And these tapes recorded every conversation that was had in the Oval Office.
Speaker A:We go into a lot more detail about it in the episode, so look out for that.
Speaker A:But the reason this is important and pertinent to the Epstein files is because ultimately, after investigations and after a lot of pressure and after a fairly long drawn out legal battle between the President and the judicial system, this went straight to the Supreme Court.
Speaker A:And the Supreme Court decided that it was necessary to release those tapes.
Speaker A:And it was the content of those tapes that ultimately incriminated Richard Nixon that led to him having to resign before he was presumably removed from office, which seemed like an inevitability at that point.
Speaker A:So my, the reason I bring all of that up and the reason why I wanted to do this episode today is because recording that and having that conversation really made me think of the parallels between that and what's currently going on in the US with the Epstein files.
Speaker A:So this has been again, a very long drawn out thing where Trump is now seemingly digging his heels in and not wanting to release the Epstein files.
Speaker A:I spoke with them along, actually on a previous episode of in the Making about some of the reasons maybe why.
Speaker A:But even from the Republican camp, there is pressure to release the Epstein files because it's sort of all kind of feeds into Trump's whole thing about, you know, let's make everything public, let's tell you everything, you know, full transparency, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker A:And now, of course, because someone said that his name is in the Epstein files and that appears to be corroborated from various different people, I'm not going to make any sort of determination over any sort of bias or ulterior motive in anyone involved in this situation.
Speaker A:But the facts are that several people are claiming that Trump's name is in the Epstein files.
Speaker A:Trump now doesn't want to release the Epstein files, which is a u turn on what he previously said.
Speaker A:And actually that's angering a lot of people, even within his own ranks, even within the MAGA ranks as well.
Speaker A:You know, Marjorie Taylor Greene, as we discussed before, really criticized Trump for this.
Speaker A:Now there seems to be some movement here.
Speaker A:There seems to be a bit of to in and fro, in classic Trump fashion, about, oh, maybe he will, maybe he won't.
Speaker A:But so far nothing's been released, which in my mind, kind of feeds sort of fans the flames of suspicion that Trump is in the Epstein files, that maybe it's not completely innocent.
Speaker A:The counter to that, of course, is that actually by just not releasing the files, he doesn't have an additional sort of PR nightmare to deal with.
Speaker A:Because if his name is in there whatsoever, people that want to hate him will use that and say, oh, he's linked to Epstein.
Speaker A:People that want to justify him will say, yeah, but his name was in there.
Speaker A:It doesn't mean he did anything.
Speaker A:He was just an acquaintance.
Speaker A:You know, and frankly, we.
Speaker A:We have to say, until any of us know the facts, until.
Speaker A:Until a charge is made, until a conviction is made, we cannot make that determination.
Speaker A:I'm certainly not going to make any kind of assumption or accusation on a podcast, mainly because I'll be sued if I do.
Speaker A:So I'm staying well out of that.
Speaker A:But what I'm saying is there seems to be inconsistencies here historically.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:The Watergate scandal and the events that transpired from that, and the loss of public confidence that Nixon eventually suffered led to his resignation.
Speaker A:And part of that was the Supreme Court ruling that those tapes should be made public.
Speaker A:Now, it, it seems like, as we.
Speaker A:We well know, not, not more than a year ago, if, if that the Supreme Court actually ruled that presidents could break the law for the, you know, sake of, you know, national interest, if they were doing duties that were, you know, part of the office of the presidency.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So the goalposts have changed a bit here.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:Trump can get away with more.
Speaker A:The Nixon or anyone before Trump couldn't.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:But Trump is also this completely different entity.
Speaker A:What I think is really interesting is that the Supreme Court are not yet getting involved.
Speaker A:You know, the latest is, I mean, just yesterday and yesterday being the 30th of July, the New York Times are reporting that several Democrats are trying to invoke a kind of rare law called the Rule of Five, which would allow, which would allow them to essentially bypass a subpoena under certain circumstances and kind of force the government's hands to provide certain information which could include, you know, information within the Epstein files.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So Democrats are working really hard to get Trump to release the files here, but it hasn't yet gone up as far as the Supreme Court.
Speaker A:Whereas Watergate, there was no in between when that needed judicial intervention that went straight to the Supreme Court.
Speaker A:So I guess my point here is that the Epstein files are really, I think, highlighting just how the political landscape has changed now.
Speaker A:It's no surprise that I don't like Trump.
Speaker A:I've been very vocal about that.
Speaker A:And, you know, you can love me or hate me for that.
Speaker A:There is another side to that.
Speaker A:I try in earnest to understand it, but I'm really yet to understand the pro Trump argument.
Speaker A:So I fully accept that I'm coming at this from a position of I think Trump should be held account for anything that he's done wrong.
Speaker A:I think anyone should be held account for anything they've done wrong.
Speaker A:But it seems very odd to me that this isn't being escalated and we're going round in circles politically here.
Speaker A:And it feels like now it's becoming nothing more than a tool for the Democrats and Republicans to bash each other with.
Speaker A:But what's really interesting is that Trump just also doesn't seem to be doing himself any favors within his own party by not releasing the files, which, you know, critics of Trump like myself could deduce from that, that there is something to hide, that he really doesn't want out.
Speaker A:And the, the, the, the damage of not releasing them is better than the damage of releasing them.
Speaker A:The only way to know is obviously to prove us wrong and to release the files.
Speaker A:But it's a really interesting thing that's happening here.
Speaker A:That I do think there's draws a lot of parallels with Nixon and Watergate, especially, you know, at a time when we're just about to go past the 50th anniversary of Nixon's resignation.
Speaker A:I think that there's something quite, quite interesting about all of this and how it's playing out.
Speaker A:And I think we're a long way away from seeing a resolution to this.
Speaker A:I don't think Trump has any intention of seeing a resolution to this for as long as he can postpone it.
Speaker A:I mean, we know what Trump's like.
Speaker A:He comes out with something outrageous to deflect from the real issue.
Speaker A:And he does it very well.
Speaker A:And because of that, I think he's been able to kick this down the road.
Speaker A:And who knows, he may well continue to kick it down the road until someone else takes over the White House and then it's their problem.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Politicians do that all the time.
Speaker A:So I think the Epstein file Is it a scandal?
Speaker A:I don't know if we can use scandal yet.
Speaker A:I think it maybe is a scandal.
Speaker A:Has a lot more to go to play out.
Speaker A:Another interesting sort of angle to all of this is, of course, will Trump pardon Ghislaine Maxwell?
Speaker A:She's asked for his pardon.
Speaker A:He's not averse to pardoning people just because he wants to.
Speaker A:So if that happens, it happens.
Speaker A:There's a lot more to keep an eye on here.
Speaker A:So watch this space and we'll try and bring you another fall in the making with someone who actually knows what they're talking about very soon.
Speaker A:Let me know your thoughts.
Speaker A:Anyway, remember to review and rate the podcast wherever you're listening and and make sure you follow and subscribe if you're not already, so that you get Tuesday's episode right away because it's I think you'll really enjoy it.
Speaker A:It's all about why Nixon resigned and the Watergate scandal and the events that led to that.
Speaker A:So look out for that and support the show.
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