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BONUS: Understanding the Impact of the Chinese Exclusion Act on Today's Immigration Debate
The Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 stands as a pivotal moment in American immigration history, marking the first time in U.S. history that a law was enacted to prohibit immigration based on race or ethnicity.
This episode delves into the origins and implications of the Act, which was initially intended as a temporary measure but ultimately became a permanent fixture of American law until its repeal in 1943.
he discussion highlights the socioeconomic conditions leading to the Act's introduction, emphasizing the growing anti-Chinese sentiment among American workers who perceived Chinese immigrants as a threat to their jobs and wages, and features insights from Professor Marco Tabellini, an expert on the economic ramifications of the Act, who explains how the exclusion of Chinese laborers disrupted local economies, particularly in the western United States, where they constituted a significant portion of the workforce.
The conversation navigates through the complexities of cultural opposition and economic fears that fueled the Act, examining how these sentiments resonated with the broader narrative of immigration policy in the U.S.
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Special guest for this episode:
- Marco Tabellini, an Assistant Professor of Business Administration at Harvard Business School, and a co-author of The Impact of the Chinese Exclusion Act on the Economic Development of the Western U.S.
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Highlights from this episode:
- The podcast episode discusses the historical implications of the Chinese Exclusion Act and its relevance to current immigration policies in America.
- Marco Tabellini emphasizes that mass deportation efforts today may lead to negative labor supply shocks similar to those in the past.
- There is a misconception that native-born workers will readily fill jobs left vacant by deported immigrants, which is not supported by evidence.
- The podcast highlights the economic significance of immigrant labor in sectors like agriculture and construction, which are often overlooked in policy discussions.
- The discussion touches on how anti-immigration sentiment can deter high-skilled immigrants, impacting the U.S. economy negatively in the long run.
- Listeners are encouraged to explore the full episode for a deeper understanding of the complexities surrounding immigration policies and their effects.
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Additional Resources:
The Impact of the Chinese Exclusion Act on the Economic Development of the Western U.S.
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And if you like this episode, you might also love:
What Do We Get Wrong About the Civil Rights Movement?
What Challenge Does Black Lives Matter Present to America?
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Transcript
Hello and welcome to this bonus episode of America A History Recorded straight after our recently published episode, what is the Chinese Exclusion Act?
Speaker A:And I'm joined now by the guest from that episode, Marco Tabellini, to discuss this a little bit more.
Speaker A:Marco, thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker B:Thank you for having me.
Speaker B:It's my pleasure.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was really great to talk to you about this.
Speaker A:And for anyone that's listening, if you haven't checked out the full episode, please do.
Speaker A: and early: Speaker A:But I wonder if we can draw some parallels to present day America, because, you know, we're, when we look at what Trump's doing, this sort of mass deportation and the widespread praise for that amongst Republicans, it makes you wonder, has America learned anything?
Speaker B:So I don't think America and most other countries for that matter, have learned from these sort of episodes.
Speaker B: are many differences between: Speaker B:The Chinese Exclusion act, as we discussed in the full episodes, also it was not about deportations, but effectively it induced many Chinese immigrants to leave the United States and created a very strong negative supply shock in sectors where they were employed and where employers had a hard time replacing them.
Speaker B:And today the deportation efforts, at least the most aggressive version, is likely to produce strong negative labor supply shocks in sectors such as agriculture and construction, where it's not going to be easy to replace the immigrant born workers, especially in an environment like this.
Speaker B:So this is like, I think one similarity.
Speaker B:Some may say that the historical context is different also because now the Trump administration is targeting undocumented immigrants, whereas in the past this was not the case.
Speaker B:I think also on this note, there are still important nuances.
Speaker B:Many of the undocumented individuals are working, are paying taxes, and replacing them won't be actually as easy as people think.
Speaker B:So there are, despite the 150 years of differences, there are similarities between the two situations.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And one of the important points that you raised in the main podcast you touched on, again, there is the labor issue here and this assumption that if you deport any undocumented migrants and illegal immigrants, that suddenly there's going to be this, this queue of people waiting to step in and do the jobs.
Speaker A:And actually in reality that's just not the case, is it?
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:And I don't think it's a coincidence that I think last Week or two weeks ago, there was a discussion between the Trump administration and the lobbying agricultural and farmers and the agricultural industry.
Speaker B:And that led to a shift in the approach that the Trump administration took on the issue of undocumented immigration and deportations.
Speaker B:Because I don't think it's going to be very easy to convince native born white workers to go and work in agriculture, pick tomatoes, strawberries or work in the dairy industry.
Speaker B:So that is something that then I think it's actually important also to think about.
Speaker B:There are some economic arguments for behind the support for restrictions to immigration, but my take is that they have less to do with the labor market and more to do with public goods provision.
Speaker B:And I don't know if.
Speaker B:So in a nutshell, I think the problem is that the immigrants documented or undocumented, especially those who are unskilled, perform jobs that are essential and that native boat workers don't want to do.
Speaker B:And this is great.
Speaker B:The cost, there is a cost.
Speaker B:The cost is on the local public goods.
Speaker B:So firms can expand quickly, jobs are created quickly.
Speaker B:Schools, hospitals, gyms, public facilities, it's much easy, much less easy to expand these on demand.
Speaker B:It takes time.
Speaker B:And so one mistake that the liberal governments in the US in Europe and elsewhere have done is to basically assume that because economically there are these benefits, then there are no other potential costs.
Speaker B:And so especially in a system in which the central government gets the tax revenues and the local governments pay for the public goods, there is a clear asymmetry.
Speaker B:And this I think was one of the main issues in the United States.
Speaker B:I think it was an issue in Germany, in many other places as well.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And do you think when you reduce of immigration policies to this kind of lowest common denominator approach, what does that do in terms of, you know, the long term impact of, you know, scaring people from moving to America?
Speaker B:Yeah, I think this is, as an American citizen, this is the, the thing that makes me more worried about what's going on because first of all, there is now ongoing discussion about restricting even high skilled immigration to the United States, which is a little bit.
Speaker B:Well, it's very different from what most other governments and what us was doing in the past of attracting actually talent.
Speaker B:So there's abundant work in economics showing the importance of foreign talent for economic growth, innovation and so on and so forth.
Speaker B:And as you said, I think even if you don't target the high skilled immigrants, there will be an indirect effect through the message that anti immigrant policies send.
Speaker B: the United States that in the: Speaker B:Well, Petra Moser from New York University actually shows that these quotas discouraged the scientists from the countries that were most affected from joining from coming to the United States precisely because they were worried about coming to a country which was not welcoming foreigners.
Speaker B:And I think this is a real issue for the United States and, and you typically now there is this idea that US is the best country for work and everyone wants to go there.
Speaker B:It's unclear that in 10 years this is going to be so this is again from the inside.
Speaker B:This is the thing that makes me really worried about the economic trajectory and implications of the current turn.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And if anyone does want to learn more about the impact of anti immigration laws on the US Economy, please remind me and everyone listening where we can get your book so you can go.
Speaker B:On my website and there you can find a link to the Chinese Exclusion act paper and some other works of mine.
Speaker A:Excellent.
Speaker A:Marco, it's been a real pleasure talking to you on the podcast and I hope we can find a reason to get you back sometimes.
Speaker A:But I can't thank you enough for joining me.
Speaker A:And to anyone listening, if you haven't listened to the full episode right now, please do.
Speaker A:It's only a couple of episodes below this feed.
Speaker A:The link to everything we've discussed is in the show notes and if you want to support the show, you can do that as well.
Speaker A:Marco, thank you so much.
Speaker B:Thank you for having me.
Speaker B:It was a real pleasure.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:And to everyone listening, thanks so much for listening and goodbye.
