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BONUS: Is Calvin Coolidge America's Quietest Overachiever?
Today, we're discussing President Calvin Coolidge a little more and why his general mid-table ranking among Presidents might be a harsh reflection of his success as America's 30th President.
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Special guest for this episode:
- Amity Shlaes, the author of four New York Times bestsellers, including Coolidge, a full-length biography of the thirtieth president. She now chairs the board of the Calvin Coolidge Presidential Foundation, a national foundation based at the birthplace of President Coolidge.
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Highlights from this episode:
- Calvin Coolidge, often overlooked in history classes, was a surprisingly impactful president who deserves more recognition.
- Despite the challenges of his time, Coolidge successfully stabilized the economy and fostered growth through his deliberate policies.
- Coolidge's immigration stance was complex; he supported restrictions but was not motivated by bigotry, which was quite progressive for his era.
- The podcast discusses how presidential rankings can be misleading, as one president's rise often means another's fall in public perception.
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Additional Resources:
READ: The Coolidge Foundation
READ: Coolidge by Amity Shlaes
LISTEN: Calvin Coolidge: A tale of two - Presidential - Apple Podcasts
LISTEN: 1924, Coolidge vs. Davis vs. L - American Elections: Wicked Game - Apple Podcasts
READ: Calvin Coolidge: Life Before the Presidency | Miller Center
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And if you like this episode, you might also love:
What Was the Constitutional Convention?
Why Does the President Only Serve Two Terms?
Is the President Above the Law?
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Transcript
Hello and welcome to this bonus episode of a history podcast recorded straight after our recently published episode.
Speaker A:Who is Calvin Coolidge?
Speaker A:I'm joined now by my guest from that episode, she's chair of the Coolidge Foundation, Amity Schlaise, to just discuss President Coolidge a little bit more.
Speaker A:Amity, thank you so much for hanging on.
Speaker B:Of course.
Speaker A:Genuinely one of the most interesting conversations I've had on this podcast because as I was saying to you off air, Calvin Coolidge is just not a guy that really gets discussed or taught certainly over here in the uk.
Speaker A:So for anyone that hasn't listened to the full episode, please go and do that now.
Speaker A:But just following our lengthy conversation and everything you've said about Coolidge, how would you rank him among the 46 presidents?
Speaker B:Well, he generally ranks in the 20s.
Speaker B:I wish it were higher.
Speaker B:And I am ever more convinced of his merit.
Speaker B:So I would rank him in the top 10.
Speaker A:Yeah, certainly in terms of, you know, humility, modesty and his approach.
Speaker A:I think there's a lot of similarities to sort of Jimmy Carter there.
Speaker B:No, well, but Coolidge achieved what he sought and Jimmy Carter did not.
Speaker B:Coolidge sought to stabilize the economy and see, hoped for strong growth through policy and he managed it.
Speaker B:So Coolidge was deliberate and his deliberation or his perseverance, he was successful.
Speaker B:So he wasn't just a nice guy or a civil guy.
Speaker B:He did what he said.
Speaker B:Maybe Carter did that too.
Speaker B:But also he was successful at what he did.
Speaker B:Well, gee, in the face of much hostility, remember the progressive movement in the 20s, Coolidge period was growing.
Speaker B:So I, I get Coolidge is closer to Thatcher than to Jimmy Carter.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker A:And yeah, as you, you mentioned in the, in the main episode, you know, that, that, that threat from the Progressive Party while Coolidge was, was in the White House is, is something that feels almost unprecedented nowadays considering how sort of closed in that two party system is.
Speaker A:I, I do wonder, considering just how different that political landscape is now versus when Coolidge was president, how effective you think he would have been in today's climate had he been.
Speaker B:Well, when the dollar crashes because of a competing currency, we too will hire, you know, for our austerity, a Thatcher or Coolidge.
Speaker B:Americans are too, what's the word?
Speaker B:Too complacent currently.
Speaker B:You know, but we haven't seen the consequences of our own policy.
Speaker B:We will.
Speaker B:And then there'll be an appetite for a stronger.
Speaker B:I think one should also mention immigration because Coolidge signed a immigration restriction, the Johnson reed Act, in 24.
Speaker B:He's oft criticized for that.
Speaker B:But in his view, and in the view of nearly all lawmakers on the Hill House and Senate, America needed a pause from immigration.
Speaker B:The way Coolidge stands out was he was not a bigot.
Speaker B:He showed that one could support immigration restriction without being a bigot.
Speaker B:And that is true.
Speaker B:And today there's so much of a fear factor.
Speaker B:I will be cast a bigot if I say we need a pause.
Speaker B:So he's a valuable model in that he treasured those newcomers who were already in America.
Speaker B:He said, whether you came over three centuries ago on the Mayflower or three years ago in the steerage, we're in the same boat here.
Speaker B:We're going to do what we can for people who are here who are with us.
Speaker B:But isn't it time for a pause?
Speaker B:And the way he did it was just much better than populist bigoted rants.
Speaker A: that way of thinking was for: Speaker A:I mean, you'd be hard pressed not to find someone who wasn't quite prejudiced.
Speaker B:Well, it was just a different time.
Speaker B:It was truly a different time.
Speaker B:He was particularly upset about the Japanese exclusion in the 24 bill and said he would veto it because if it had stood alone.
Speaker B:But he didn't because he was to be overridden anyhow.
Speaker B:But it's interesting to go back and look at the way he handled the migration question us today, caught in this challenge, well, maybe there should be fewer immigrants or fewer we ought to change our policy.
Speaker B:But it does to say so make us a bigot.
Speaker B:That he handled that beautifully and Americans understood it, including immigrant Americans.
Speaker B:They were quite supportive of him.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's mad to me just when you've spoken about his legacy in his presidency, just how effective he was and how popular he seemed to be, that we don't know more about college and that he doesn't stand a bit higher in the.
Speaker A:In the sort of legacy of great presidents.
Speaker B:Well, the presidential ranking is a zero sum situation, right?
Speaker B:One goes up, the other has to go down.
Speaker B:That's why I don't like rankings, because life isn't quite like that.
Speaker B:And the terms shift, if you'll notice.
Speaker B:People shift their terms even as they rank.
Speaker B:Well, do you like him?
Speaker B:So there's always something slightly corrupt about presidential ranking or illogical, at the very least, the terms always shift.
Speaker B:So in that zero sum game, if you like Franklin Roosevelt, which many do very much for different reasons, again on different terms, his service in the war, the great helmsman, his or his more progressive policies then you have to not like Coolidge as strongly as you like Roosevelt up, down because they are opposites.
Speaker B:So yeah, that I think I find something to like in both.
Speaker B:And I don't think it's a trade off or what we say, a seesaw or a teeter totter we used to call it.
Speaker B:Right one versus.
Speaker B:But that's the, that's the sort of awful physics of president ranking up down.
Speaker B:And you know in school teachers spend a lot of energy on Roosevelt.
Speaker B:Therefore they have to spend too much probably.
Speaker B:And then they have also in their time budget for the semester little for Coolidge.
Speaker B:It goes like that.
Speaker B:It's very interesting.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a very valid point.
Speaker A:And on, on that note, Amity, I thank you for joining me for this little extra chat.
Speaker A:And anyone hearing this who hasn't already heard the full episode about President Coolidge, do please go and check that out right now.
Speaker A:Amity, remind people where they can find out more with the Coolidge foundation and sort of contact you directly.
Speaker B:Oh, coolidgefoundation.org we're not the Coolidge Project.
Speaker B:That's somebody else.
Speaker B:We're coolidgefoundation.org or calvin-coolidge.
Speaker B:You'll find us.
Speaker B:Then you can learn all about our scholarships.
Speaker B:Consider coming 4th of July.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:Thank you so much for joining me and to everyone listening, thank you so much for listening and goodbye.
Speaker B:Bye.
Speaker B:Appreciated this.
Speaker B:Thank you.
